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	<title>Comments on: Race and the Coming Health Care Reform War</title>
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	<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/09/race-and-the-coming-health-care-reform-war/</link>
	<description>The Future is Here</description>
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		<title>By: dentalfremont</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/09/race-and-the-coming-health-care-reform-war/comment-page-1/#comment-22355</link>
		<dc:creator>dentalfremont</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 07:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=837#comment-22355</guid>
		<description>Hope that it goes well and people that&#039;s in the position does not use this health care reform by obama.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hope that it goes well and people that&#39;s in the position does not use this health care reform by obama.</p>
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		<title>By: dumilewis</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/09/race-and-the-coming-health-care-reform-war/comment-page-1/#comment-22301</link>
		<dc:creator>dumilewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=837#comment-22301</guid>
		<description>This is an excellent post! I think you really up the anti when it comes to looking at the operation of race on multiple levels throughout this policy discourse. I think the most valuable parts are around the framing of &quot;the costs&quot; and the state standard. As someone who studies education, I see these two red herrings of equity operate all the time. Well said Doc... so can we get you doing some national punditry on TV? This is an analysis I&#039;d love to hear articulated on the tube.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an excellent post! I think you really up the anti when it comes to looking at the operation of race on multiple levels throughout this policy discourse. I think the most valuable parts are around the framing of &#8220;the costs&#8221; and the state standard. As someone who studies education, I see these two red herrings of equity operate all the time. Well said Doc&#8230; so can we get you doing some national punditry on TV? This is an analysis I&#39;d love to hear articulated on the tube.</p>
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		<title>By: Facebook User</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/09/race-and-the-coming-health-care-reform-war/comment-page-1/#comment-22300</link>
		<dc:creator>Facebook User</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=837#comment-22300</guid>
		<description>An excellent EXCELLENT point. There&#039;s all types of stuff wrapped up in the move you&#039;re recognizing. Part of it is the white/non-white thing no doubt, but there&#039;s also the nationalist component (you don&#039;t say &quot;black doctor&quot; but &quot;Indian doctor&quot;). Their idea of what America is, what civilization is, is changing right before their eyes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An excellent EXCELLENT point. There&#39;s all types of stuff wrapped up in the move you&#39;re recognizing. Part of it is the white/non-white thing no doubt, but there&#39;s also the nationalist component (you don&#39;t say &#8220;black doctor&#8221; but &#8220;Indian doctor&#8221;). Their idea of what America is, what civilization is, is changing right before their eyes.</p>
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		<title>By: Facebook User</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/09/race-and-the-coming-health-care-reform-war/comment-page-1/#comment-22299</link>
		<dc:creator>Facebook User</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=837#comment-22299</guid>
		<description>Haha!! &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My politics are more humanist now than nationalist, though they still start from a black place, if that makes sense. I think you and I are at the same place there.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But what your comments reflect is an understandable fear that Obama has not created but is supporting by his lack of will. By his lack of imagination. That our &quot;intellectual class&quot; has supported by their relative lack of imagination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha!! </p>
<p>My politics are more humanist now than nationalist, though they still start from a black place, if that makes sense. I think you and I are at the same place there.</p>
<p>But what your comments reflect is an understandable fear that Obama has not created but is supporting by his lack of will. By his lack of imagination. That our &#8220;intellectual class&#8221; has supported by their relative lack of imagination.</p>
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		<title>By: urbanleftbehind</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/09/race-and-the-coming-health-care-reform-war/comment-page-1/#comment-22298</link>
		<dc:creator>urbanleftbehind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=837#comment-22298</guid>
		<description>I thing the more salient point is bringing in the race of the health care providers:  I think the fear of a future darker America and of rationed helath care intersect for many older (35 years+) whites because not only will the dollars go to treat fat POC, but also because the doctor, technician decision-maker, and clerical apparati will be undoubtedly darker:  the Indian or East Asian doctor, Phillipino or West Indian Nurse, the Latina tech, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thing the more salient point is bringing in the race of the health care providers:  I think the fear of a future darker America and of rationed helath care intersect for many older (35 years+) whites because not only will the dollars go to treat fat POC, but also because the doctor, technician decision-maker, and clerical apparati will be undoubtedly darker:  the Indian or East Asian doctor, Phillipino or West Indian Nurse, the Latina tech, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: T_Steel</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/09/race-and-the-coming-health-care-reform-war/comment-page-1/#comment-22297</link>
		<dc:creator>T_Steel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=837#comment-22297</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;And I hope this also makes it clear why a strong “race-based” critique of Obama is still needed, but one that does not fall into the simple “is he down/is he ain’t” dichotomy.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It is so very hard for me to engage in any sort of &quot;race-based&quot; critique of President Obama.  One reason is that I don&#039;t have the same fortitude that I had when I was, for lack of a better term, a &quot;black nationalist&quot;.  I found it much easier to engage in &quot;race based&quot; critiques.   Now that I don&#039;t necessarily roll &#039;round those parts, I just don&#039;t know how to, or maybe, want to touch it.  Although I agree 100% with you on how black and brown suffer more in the health care system, I am leery to even bring up race for &quot;fear&quot; that it will derail everything.  Am I a coward for this?  In some eyes I&#039;m probably am.  But I&#039;m no &quot;general coward&quot; so don&#039;t get it twisted.  But my longing for GETTING HEALTH CARE DONE is overruling my examination of the racial aspects in this.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But your probably right when you say this Professor Spence:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;em&gt;Using black and brown bodies to tilt the health care debate to costs rather than investments will tilt public opinion towards conservative and moderate solutions.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So either way, I&#039;m screwed.  LOL!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>And I hope this also makes it clear why a strong “race-based” critique of Obama is still needed, but one that does not fall into the simple “is he down/is he ain’t” dichotomy.</em></p>
<p>It is so very hard for me to engage in any sort of &#8220;race-based&#8221; critique of President Obama.  One reason is that I don&#39;t have the same fortitude that I had when I was, for lack of a better term, a &#8220;black nationalist&#8221;.  I found it much easier to engage in &#8220;race based&#8221; critiques.   Now that I don&#39;t necessarily roll &#39;round those parts, I just don&#39;t know how to, or maybe, want to touch it.  Although I agree 100% with you on how black and brown suffer more in the health care system, I am leery to even bring up race for &#8220;fear&#8221; that it will derail everything.  Am I a coward for this?  In some eyes I&#39;m probably am.  But I&#39;m no &#8220;general coward&#8221; so don&#39;t get it twisted.  But my longing for GETTING HEALTH CARE DONE is overruling my examination of the racial aspects in this.</p>
<p>But your probably right when you say this Professor Spence:</p>
<p><em>Using black and brown bodies to tilt the health care debate to costs rather than investments will tilt public opinion towards conservative and moderate solutions.</em></p>
<p>So either way, I&#39;m screwed.  LOL!</p>
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		<title>By: Valuable Internet Information &#187; Race and the Coming Health Care Reform War</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/09/race-and-the-coming-health-care-reform-war/comment-page-1/#comment-22294</link>
		<dc:creator>Valuable Internet Information &#187; Race and the Coming Health Care Reform War</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=837#comment-22294</guid>
		<description>[...] View original post here: Race and the Coming Health Care Reform War [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] View original post here: Race and the Coming Health Care Reform War [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Cobb</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/09/race-and-the-coming-health-care-reform-war/comment-page-1/#comment-22293</link>
		<dc:creator>Cobb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:34:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=837#comment-22293</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Coming to Some Conclusions on the Old School Project...&lt;/strong&gt;

For the past 15 years or so, my invisible partner in crime has been Dr. Lester K. Spence. He is, professionally, what I have been on a part-time basis for the past oh say 20 years. Actually more like 25......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Coming to Some Conclusions on the Old School Project&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>For the past 15 years or so, my invisible partner in crime has been Dr. Lester K. Spence. He is, professionally, what I have been on a part-time basis for the past oh say 20 years. Actually more like 25&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Michael David Cobb Bowen</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/09/race-and-the-coming-health-care-reform-war/comment-page-1/#comment-22292</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael David Cobb Bowen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=837#comment-22292</guid>
		<description>I think you illustrate very clearly how the dissonance on race makes the smooth edges ragged, and how a lack of an orthodox way of looking at race on any subject matter makes it impossible to achieve a neutral position in dealing with disparities. I think you appreciate how there aren&#039;t enough competent social scientists in the world to establish that orthodoxy and nothing seems to defy the oxygen sucking quality of those racial designated hitters. You also clearly see how partisans manipulate this dissonance to their advantage without regard to the moral capacity of their political opponents.  Well, Sisyphus, you have adequately assessed the dimensions of your boulder. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To repeat my angle, it is my contention that the path of integration requires a sort of social mobility that has been enabled by the acceptance of Civil Rights law. And to the extent that Americans are fluid in their identity, there should not be resistance to that social mobility. Or to put it more simply, if it&#039;s easy to sell out your race, and race is what&#039;s holding you back, then sell out.  It seems to me that the integrity of the racial construct is critical for anyone, be they social science subject, majority or minority object, to satisfy the balancing of the racial formula. This integrity is at odds with the implications of racial integration. In otherwords, the actual solution which satisfies the demands of a discrete narrowing of racial gaps (ever the benchmark), requires a sort of nationalist fidelity across all parties. So long as non-white but good is not good enough, perfection by race is the enemy of good.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You see, if you teach to a standard, say high school algebra. There is no way you can suppress the benefit to people who had a headstart unless you make math teaching a zero sum game. So to constantly harp on the gap between those who *obviously* started with some combination of advantages and those who didn&#039;t is to beg the question of establishing a zero-sum game.  That&#039;s the problem here and it appears to be deep and fundamental. You require a racial signifier that cannot be satisfied by achievement, only by parity.  Such a standard of &#039;equality&#039; is the moral equivalent of coveting they neighbor&#039;s house.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If you could do this exclusively in the context of wars on poverty.. it might not be such an odious problem. But it cannot be denied that American poverty lies fairly lightweight when contrasted with world poverty - which relegates all of the moral agitation rather empty. It all sounds like middle class politics to me. We want to live to 84 instead of 72. What a conceit! &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I exaggerate, but the matter of poverty is key. What concerns me is whether or not the aegis of &#039;black&#039; as in &#039;up you mighty race&#039; establishes in any broadly accepted context, all matters of poverty. In the American reality of the majority of black Americans being middle class, how do you make &#039;black&#039; issues, dysfunctional and poverty and indigence issues with moral suasion considering the existential ties to so many millions who don&#039;t suffer at the base levels of Maslow? Because if the politics of hiring legions of social scientists is not about all about alleviating objective human misery, it&#039;s nothing more or less than middle-class racial spoils politics. That&#039;s hardly fitting of anyone claiming moral authority for their project. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;ve been asking the question, &#039;who owns black?&#039; for six years or so, with the premise in mind that a post-black-nationalist adjudication of flaws could redirect black American energy onto a more righteous path. But I have found blackness itself too postmodern and without a useful orthodoxy. In the end, race being a social construct, it is too subject to both regressive obstinance and clever manipulation to be useful to a moral cause, precisely because it is so politically fungible.  The only absolute with regard to race is its history. With every day that passes, that history becomes larger and more immovable. It cannot be reformed. It can only be abandoned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you illustrate very clearly how the dissonance on race makes the smooth edges ragged, and how a lack of an orthodox way of looking at race on any subject matter makes it impossible to achieve a neutral position in dealing with disparities. I think you appreciate how there aren&#39;t enough competent social scientists in the world to establish that orthodoxy and nothing seems to defy the oxygen sucking quality of those racial designated hitters. You also clearly see how partisans manipulate this dissonance to their advantage without regard to the moral capacity of their political opponents.  Well, Sisyphus, you have adequately assessed the dimensions of your boulder. </p>
<p>To repeat my angle, it is my contention that the path of integration requires a sort of social mobility that has been enabled by the acceptance of Civil Rights law. And to the extent that Americans are fluid in their identity, there should not be resistance to that social mobility. Or to put it more simply, if it&#39;s easy to sell out your race, and race is what&#39;s holding you back, then sell out.  It seems to me that the integrity of the racial construct is critical for anyone, be they social science subject, majority or minority object, to satisfy the balancing of the racial formula. This integrity is at odds with the implications of racial integration. In otherwords, the actual solution which satisfies the demands of a discrete narrowing of racial gaps (ever the benchmark), requires a sort of nationalist fidelity across all parties. So long as non-white but good is not good enough, perfection by race is the enemy of good.</p>
<p>You see, if you teach to a standard, say high school algebra. There is no way you can suppress the benefit to people who had a headstart unless you make math teaching a zero sum game. So to constantly harp on the gap between those who *obviously* started with some combination of advantages and those who didn&#39;t is to beg the question of establishing a zero-sum game.  That&#39;s the problem here and it appears to be deep and fundamental. You require a racial signifier that cannot be satisfied by achievement, only by parity.  Such a standard of &#39;equality&#39; is the moral equivalent of coveting they neighbor&#39;s house.</p>
<p>If you could do this exclusively in the context of wars on poverty.. it might not be such an odious problem. But it cannot be denied that American poverty lies fairly lightweight when contrasted with world poverty &#8211; which relegates all of the moral agitation rather empty. It all sounds like middle class politics to me. We want to live to 84 instead of 72. What a conceit! </p>
<p>I exaggerate, but the matter of poverty is key. What concerns me is whether or not the aegis of &#39;black&#39; as in &#39;up you mighty race&#39; establishes in any broadly accepted context, all matters of poverty. In the American reality of the majority of black Americans being middle class, how do you make &#39;black&#39; issues, dysfunctional and poverty and indigence issues with moral suasion considering the existential ties to so many millions who don&#39;t suffer at the base levels of Maslow? Because if the politics of hiring legions of social scientists is not about all about alleviating objective human misery, it&#39;s nothing more or less than middle-class racial spoils politics. That&#39;s hardly fitting of anyone claiming moral authority for their project. </p>
<p>I&#39;ve been asking the question, &#39;who owns black?&#39; for six years or so, with the premise in mind that a post-black-nationalist adjudication of flaws could redirect black American energy onto a more righteous path. But I have found blackness itself too postmodern and without a useful orthodoxy. In the end, race being a social construct, it is too subject to both regressive obstinance and clever manipulation to be useful to a moral cause, precisely because it is so politically fungible.  The only absolute with regard to race is its history. With every day that passes, that history becomes larger and more immovable. It cannot be reformed. It can only be abandoned.</p>
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