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	<title>Comments on: Black intellectual Obama wars off-kilter. &#8220;Controversy.&#8221; #prince</title>
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	<description>The Future is Here</description>
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		<title>By: Lester Spence</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/07/black-intellectual-obama-wars-off-kilter-controversy-prince/comment-page-1/#comment-22305</link>
		<dc:creator>Lester Spence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=829#comment-22305</guid>
		<description>Thanks for asking. I&#039;d suggest that we aren&#039;t really talking about public discussions, which any and everyone should participate in. What we&#039;re talking about is media punditry, an act that by its nature excludes most people in part because of the credentials required to allow one access in the first place. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So given this, what should the requirement be for black media pundits? I argue that at the very least if the discussion substantively deals with politics and economics the individual &quot;punditting&quot; should have the ability to speak clearly and confidently about the issue particularly when offering alternatives, without resorting to bromides. I believe this is more likely to occur when the individual is formally trained, but this doesn&#039;t preclude the modern equivalent of a James Boggs or Harold Cruse (neither of whom was formally trained).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for asking. I&#39;d suggest that we aren&#39;t really talking about public discussions, which any and everyone should participate in. What we&#39;re talking about is media punditry, an act that by its nature excludes most people in part because of the credentials required to allow one access in the first place. </p>
<p>So given this, what should the requirement be for black media pundits? I argue that at the very least if the discussion substantively deals with politics and economics the individual &#8220;punditting&#8221; should have the ability to speak clearly and confidently about the issue particularly when offering alternatives, without resorting to bromides. I believe this is more likely to occur when the individual is formally trained, but this doesn&#39;t preclude the modern equivalent of a James Boggs or Harold Cruse (neither of whom was formally trained).</p>
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		<title>By: Minister Faust</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/07/black-intellectual-obama-wars-off-kilter-controversy-prince/comment-page-1/#comment-22304</link>
		<dc:creator>Minister Faust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 02:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=829#comment-22304</guid>
		<description>&quot;The reason they have no substantive political and economic critiques is because they do not have the skillset required to make them.&quot; LKS, can you discuss your thoughts on the role of non-specialists engaging in public discussion, including at the authorial level, of the weighty issues you raise? Do you preclude such a role--or are you specifically and exclusively referring to skills rather than academic credentials? Noam Chomsky, for instance, is a linguist, not a political scientist or historian. Where and how do you draw your lines on who gets to comment? Please don&#039;t infer a combative tone on my part; I mean these questions in a non-rhetorical, answer-gathering manner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The reason they have no substantive political and economic critiques is because they do not have the skillset required to make them.&#8221; LKS, can you discuss your thoughts on the role of non-specialists engaging in public discussion, including at the authorial level, of the weighty issues you raise? Do you preclude such a role&#8211;or are you specifically and exclusively referring to skills rather than academic credentials? Noam Chomsky, for instance, is a linguist, not a political scientist or historian. Where and how do you draw your lines on who gets to comment? Please don&#39;t infer a combative tone on my part; I mean these questions in a non-rhetorical, answer-gathering manner.</p>
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		<title>By: The Good Doctor</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/07/black-intellectual-obama-wars-off-kilter-controversy-prince/comment-page-1/#comment-22296</link>
		<dc:creator>The Good Doctor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 19:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=829#comment-22296</guid>
		<description>Let me ask you this Makheru. What did you get from Dyson&#039;s rant that you hadn&#039;t gotten anywhere else? What did he say that caused you to think differently? What did he say that you did not know?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me ask you this Makheru. What did you get from Dyson&#8217;s rant that you hadn&#8217;t gotten anywhere else? What did he say that caused you to think differently? What did he say that you did not know?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael David Cobb Bowen</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/07/black-intellectual-obama-wars-off-kilter-controversy-prince/comment-page-1/#comment-22291</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael David Cobb Bowen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=829#comment-22291</guid>
		<description>The difference is that people are demanding it to be.  Black political constituents refuse to be addressed as Americans plain and simple. So when advocates for honest, working class Americans start pushing their agenda, partisans demand that the message be racialized. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If that weren&#039;t the case, black Americans would have sympathized with Sarah Palin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The difference is that people are demanding it to be.  Black political constituents refuse to be addressed as Americans plain and simple. So when advocates for honest, working class Americans start pushing their agenda, partisans demand that the message be racialized. </p>
<p>If that weren&#39;t the case, black Americans would have sympathized with Sarah Palin.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael David Cobb Bowen</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/07/black-intellectual-obama-wars-off-kilter-controversy-prince/comment-page-1/#comment-22290</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael David Cobb Bowen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=829#comment-22290</guid>
		<description>I think there is no clearer evidence of a racial spoils politics than that which shows the devastation you quote. The reason that subprime loans hit black families proportionately higher was that black families were specific targets of this liberalization of lending. It&#039;s really as simple as that - the unintended consequences of bending the rules for the sake of inclusion is that if the new rules are a bad idea, the newly included suffer disproportionately. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In the case of lending liberalization, the new rules were an adequate idea but the implementation was sloppy and stupid. I wrote about that here in December. &lt;a href=&quot;http://cobb.typepad.com/cobb/2008/12/cra-the-redline.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://cobb.typepad.com/cobb/2008/12/cra-the-re...&lt;/a&gt;  They didn&#039;t help people earn chips, they lowered the ante, and that ruined the game for everyone. On the other hand, it&#039;s a political non-starter to hand out free chips to blacks. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That doesn&#039;t change the fact that so long as you demand separate targeted political solutions by race, you will never have equality. They are incompatible. In this regard, the non-racial initiatives of people like Ward Connerly make perfect, logical sense. However we all know that non-racialism is also a political non-starter, but that&#039;s because &#039;black politics&#039; refuses to distinguish between civil rights defense and economic stimulus. As much as I like John Hope Bryant, his &#039;silver rights&#039; rhetoric is part of that problem. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The equitable distribution of subprime loans and all other economic goods and services begins when black advocates allow blackness to disappear as a political consideration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there is no clearer evidence of a racial spoils politics than that which shows the devastation you quote. The reason that subprime loans hit black families proportionately higher was that black families were specific targets of this liberalization of lending. It&#39;s really as simple as that &#8211; the unintended consequences of bending the rules for the sake of inclusion is that if the new rules are a bad idea, the newly included suffer disproportionately. </p>
<p>In the case of lending liberalization, the new rules were an adequate idea but the implementation was sloppy and stupid. I wrote about that here in December. <a href="http://cobb.typepad.com/cobb/2008/12/cra-the-redline.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://cobb.typepad.com/cobb/2008/12/cra-the-re.." rel="nofollow">http://cobb.typepad.com/cobb/2008/12/cra-the-re..</a>.  They didn&#39;t help people earn chips, they lowered the ante, and that ruined the game for everyone. On the other hand, it&#39;s a political non-starter to hand out free chips to blacks. </p>
<p>That doesn&#39;t change the fact that so long as you demand separate targeted political solutions by race, you will never have equality. They are incompatible. In this regard, the non-racial initiatives of people like Ward Connerly make perfect, logical sense. However we all know that non-racialism is also a political non-starter, but that&#39;s because &#39;black politics&#39; refuses to distinguish between civil rights defense and economic stimulus. As much as I like John Hope Bryant, his &#39;silver rights&#39; rhetoric is part of that problem. </p>
<p>The equitable distribution of subprime loans and all other economic goods and services begins when black advocates allow blackness to disappear as a political consideration.</p>
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		<title>By: Sweet Jones</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/07/black-intellectual-obama-wars-off-kilter-controversy-prince/comment-page-1/#comment-22289</link>
		<dc:creator>Sweet Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 02:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=829#comment-22289</guid>
		<description>Well said, makheru bradley.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, makheru bradley.</p>
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		<title>By: makheru bradley</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/07/black-intellectual-obama-wars-off-kilter-controversy-prince/comment-page-1/#comment-22288</link>
		<dc:creator>makheru bradley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 00:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=829#comment-22288</guid>
		<description>Generally speaking I’ve always found Dr. Dyson to be lacking the Afrikan Deep Thought required of critical thinkers, but I disagree that his “focus is off…way off” in this interview.  Dyson is on target regarding Obama’s handling of GM vs AIG. He’s on target regarding Obama’s willingness to sacrifice the interest of Afrikan Americans in deference to a concept of universalism. He’s on target when he says that he expects all presidents to deal with the issue of race. He’s on target when he says that we cannot be so grateful to have Obama in office that we make no demands on him. He’s on target when he says that we cannot put all of our political eggs in one basket. Finally, Dyson is most definitely correct when he says that Obama generalized his way around a specific and extremely relevant question posed by Andre Showell of BET: &quot;The black unemployment rate, as you know, is in the double digits. And in New York City, for example, the black unemployment rate for men is near 50 percent. My question to you tonight is: given this unique and desperate circumstance, what specific policies can you point to that will target these communities and what&#039;s the timetable for us to see tangible results?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The only thing that I would say is that I don’t know why Dyson or anyone else would be surprised by Obama’s performance in the “race arena.”  Candidate Obama did everything possible to present himself to white America as race neutral. Did anyone really expect President Obama to be any different, regardless of the obvious responsibility to tackle the specifics of that difficult issue?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I did not see the Smiley documentary, so I’m in no position to critique Dr. Harris-Lacewell’s analysis of the program. I will however challenge this statement by the Princeton professor:                &lt;br&gt;                 &lt;br&gt;“African-Americans are now citizens capable of running for office, holding officials accountable through democratic elections, publicly expressing divergent political preferences and, most importantly, engaging the full spectrum of American political issues, not only narrowly racial ones. The era of racial brokerage politics, when the voices of a few men stood in for the entire race, is now over. And thank goodness it is over. Black politics is growing up.”&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What measurable outcomes can Harris-Lacewell identify to validate that statement? Growth is not equal to positive development. Simply holding office does not necessarily equate to holding power—the capacity to positively impact the material conditions of those you represent.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Black politicians were asleep at the switch while sub-prime lenders wrecked thousands of Afrikan American families as Pam Martens noted: &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;[According to a comprehensive report from the nonprofit group, United for a Fair Economy, over the past eight years the total loss of wealth for people of color is between $164 billion and $213 billion, for subprime loans which is the greatest loss of wealth for people of color in mod¬ern history: &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&quot;According to federal data, people of color are three times more likely to have subprime loans: high-cost loans account for 55 per cent of loans to blacks, but only 17 per cent of loans to whites&quot;. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;If there had been equitable distribution of subprime loans, losses for white people would be 44.5 per cent higher and losses for people of color would be about 24 per cent lower. &quot;This is evidence of systemic prejudice and institutional racism.&quot;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;Before the current crisis, based on improvements in median household net worth, it would take 594 more years for blacks to achieve parity with whites. The current crisis is likely to stretch this even further.]&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Based on the real unemployment statistics Afrikan America is in an economic depression. What strategies have Black politicians developed to remediate this crisis? &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The reality is that Black politics in America, with all but a few exceptions is just another form of neo-colonialism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Generally speaking I’ve always found Dr. Dyson to be lacking the Afrikan Deep Thought required of critical thinkers, but I disagree that his “focus is off…way off” in this interview.  Dyson is on target regarding Obama’s handling of GM vs AIG. He’s on target regarding Obama’s willingness to sacrifice the interest of Afrikan Americans in deference to a concept of universalism. He’s on target when he says that he expects all presidents to deal with the issue of race. He’s on target when he says that we cannot be so grateful to have Obama in office that we make no demands on him. He’s on target when he says that we cannot put all of our political eggs in one basket. Finally, Dyson is most definitely correct when he says that Obama generalized his way around a specific and extremely relevant question posed by Andre Showell of BET: &#8220;The black unemployment rate, as you know, is in the double digits. And in New York City, for example, the black unemployment rate for men is near 50 percent. My question to you tonight is: given this unique and desperate circumstance, what specific policies can you point to that will target these communities and what&#39;s the timetable for us to see tangible results?&#8221;</p>
<p>The only thing that I would say is that I don’t know why Dyson or anyone else would be surprised by Obama’s performance in the “race arena.”  Candidate Obama did everything possible to present himself to white America as race neutral. Did anyone really expect President Obama to be any different, regardless of the obvious responsibility to tackle the specifics of that difficult issue?</p>
<p>I did not see the Smiley documentary, so I’m in no position to critique Dr. Harris-Lacewell’s analysis of the program. I will however challenge this statement by the Princeton professor:                </p>
<p>“African-Americans are now citizens capable of running for office, holding officials accountable through democratic elections, publicly expressing divergent political preferences and, most importantly, engaging the full spectrum of American political issues, not only narrowly racial ones. The era of racial brokerage politics, when the voices of a few men stood in for the entire race, is now over. And thank goodness it is over. Black politics is growing up.”</p>
<p>What measurable outcomes can Harris-Lacewell identify to validate that statement? Growth is not equal to positive development. Simply holding office does not necessarily equate to holding power—the capacity to positively impact the material conditions of those you represent.</p>
<p>Black politicians were asleep at the switch while sub-prime lenders wrecked thousands of Afrikan American families as Pam Martens noted: </p>
<p>[According to a comprehensive report from the nonprofit group, United for a Fair Economy, over the past eight years the total loss of wealth for people of color is between $164 billion and $213 billion, for subprime loans which is the greatest loss of wealth for people of color in mod¬ern history: </p>
<p>"According to federal data, people of color are three times more likely to have subprime loans: high-cost loans account for 55 per cent of loans to blacks, but only 17 per cent of loans to whites". </p>
<p>If there had been equitable distribution of subprime loans, losses for white people would be 44.5 per cent higher and losses for people of color would be about 24 per cent lower. "This is evidence of systemic prejudice and institutional racism."</p>
<p>Before the current crisis, based on improvements in median household net worth, it would take 594 more years for blacks to achieve parity with whites. The current crisis is likely to stretch this even further.]</p>
<p>Based on the real unemployment statistics Afrikan America is in an economic depression. What strategies have Black politicians developed to remediate this crisis? </p>
<p>The reality is that Black politics in America, with all but a few exceptions is just another form of neo-colonialism.</p>
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		<title>By: Ta-Nehisi Coates</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/07/black-intellectual-obama-wars-off-kilter-controversy-prince/comment-page-1/#comment-22287</link>
		<dc:creator>Ta-Nehisi Coates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=829#comment-22287</guid>
		<description>Lester, one thing I&#039;d ask, is how a critique of Obama&#039;s policy toward African-Americans, could be (or would be) differentiated from a critique of his policy toward working Americans and toward the poor. What I&#039;m trying to get at is what policies should we be looking at that would black people specifically, but don&#039;t necessarily help anyone else.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That&#039;s a somewhat clumsy frame. But, for instance, the crack/cocaine disparity or the Rockerfeller drug laws. Obviously they have a disproportionately negative effect on black people. But that really is only a portion of the critique--they would be bad policy even if they didn&#039;t.  In other words, while a drug war critique certainly has a racial component, and certainly has special importance for black communities, the policy, itself, affects all kinds of people and is bad overall.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think there is room to go after that &quot;rising tide lifts all boats&quot; argument. But it seems to me that often the direct line is in questioning whether the tide is, in fact, rising at all. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Just a few thoughts. I&#039;m still thinking my way through.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lester, one thing I&#39;d ask, is how a critique of Obama&#39;s policy toward African-Americans, could be (or would be) differentiated from a critique of his policy toward working Americans and toward the poor. What I&#39;m trying to get at is what policies should we be looking at that would black people specifically, but don&#39;t necessarily help anyone else.</p>
<p>That&#39;s a somewhat clumsy frame. But, for instance, the crack/cocaine disparity or the Rockerfeller drug laws. Obviously they have a disproportionately negative effect on black people. But that really is only a portion of the critique&#8211;they would be bad policy even if they didn&#39;t.  In other words, while a drug war critique certainly has a racial component, and certainly has special importance for black communities, the policy, itself, affects all kinds of people and is bad overall.</p>
<p>I think there is room to go after that &#8220;rising tide lifts all boats&#8221; argument. But it seems to me that often the direct line is in questioning whether the tide is, in fact, rising at all. </p>
<p>Just a few thoughts. I&#39;m still thinking my way through.</p>
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		<title>By: Ta-Nehisi Coates</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/07/black-intellectual-obama-wars-off-kilter-controversy-prince/comment-page-1/#comment-22286</link>
		<dc:creator>Ta-Nehisi Coates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=829#comment-22286</guid>
		<description>Wow. Great Post. Will link tomorrow. What&#039;s up Minkah!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. Great Post. Will link tomorrow. What&#39;s up Minkah!!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael David Cobb Bowen</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2009/06/07/black-intellectual-obama-wars-off-kilter-controversy-prince/comment-page-1/#comment-22283</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael David Cobb Bowen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:52:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=829#comment-22283</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure about the social scientist part. New poets, painters, lit critics? Sure. Let them open our eyes. But let their inspiration be what it is, not be mediated to the masses through government programs. After all, where did social science come? It came from thinking about how the government plans its war on X, X needing a scientific explanation from those getting government grants to re-engineer society.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There shouldn&#039;t be any question that such central planning is inimical to black family independence and self-sufficiency, but it coincided with the opening up of civil service to black Americans. Separate the two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m not sure about the social scientist part. New poets, painters, lit critics? Sure. Let them open our eyes. But let their inspiration be what it is, not be mediated to the masses through government programs. After all, where did social science come? It came from thinking about how the government plans its war on X, X needing a scientific explanation from those getting government grants to re-engineer society.</p>
<p>There shouldn&#39;t be any question that such central planning is inimical to black family independence and self-sufficiency, but it coincided with the opening up of civil service to black Americans. Separate the two.</p>
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