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	<title>Comments on: Detroit school superintendent owns up to systemic failures.</title>
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	<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2008/06/07/detroit-school-superintendent-owns-up-to-systemic-failures/</link>
	<description>The Future is Here</description>
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		<title>By: Irami</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2008/06/07/detroit-school-superintendent-owns-up-to-systemic-failures/comment-page-1/#comment-20279</link>
		<dc:creator>Irami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 05:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=462#comment-20279</guid>
		<description>I think that Sam Adams had it right when he wrote into the Mass Constitution, &quot;Wisdom and knowledge, as well as virtue diffused generally among the body of people is necessary for the preservation of rights and liberties.&quot;

I think that human flourishing is the primary goal of education, but I also think that human condition is that of plurality, so you can&#039;t talk about human flourishing without talking about citizenship and inter-relations. 

This is one of those issues DuBois had right, we need to train men as men,  not men as laborers. I also think that part of what it is to support public education is to send your kids to public schools, and work with your local public school to make it a school worthy of sending your kids to. It&#039;s easy to write a check or talk the talk, but public education and community responsibility means putting your kids where your mouth is. There are costs to citizenship. We understand that with respect to military service, but we have yet to understand this with respect to our other civic institutions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that Sam Adams had it right when he wrote into the Mass Constitution, &#8220;Wisdom and knowledge, as well as virtue diffused generally among the body of people is necessary for the preservation of rights and liberties.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think that human flourishing is the primary goal of education, but I also think that human condition is that of plurality, so you can&#8217;t talk about human flourishing without talking about citizenship and inter-relations. </p>
<p>This is one of those issues DuBois had right, we need to train men as men,  not men as laborers. I also think that part of what it is to support public education is to send your kids to public schools, and work with your local public school to make it a school worthy of sending your kids to. It&#8217;s easy to write a check or talk the talk, but public education and community responsibility means putting your kids where your mouth is. There are costs to citizenship. We understand that with respect to military service, but we have yet to understand this with respect to our other civic institutions.</p>
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		<title>By: The Good Doctor</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2008/06/07/detroit-school-superintendent-owns-up-to-systemic-failures/comment-page-1/#comment-19772</link>
		<dc:creator>The Good Doctor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 15:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=462#comment-19772</guid>
		<description>Particularly because public school budgets, while large, cannot meet the needs of their constituents, having a public-private partnership can work. But what happens when the needs of employers trump the needs of citizens? Is what Verizon wants always good for Detroit?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Particularly because public school budgets, while large, cannot meet the needs of their constituents, having a public-private partnership can work. But what happens when the needs of employers trump the needs of citizens? Is what Verizon wants always good for Detroit?</p>
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		<title>By: MIB</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2008/06/07/detroit-school-superintendent-owns-up-to-systemic-failures/comment-page-1/#comment-19762</link>
		<dc:creator>MIB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 03:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=462#comment-19762</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve always thought the ideal purpose of school -- especially public school --was to give basic instruction in several disciplines, including civics.  I know in reality, schools mostly focus on so-called fundamentals of literacy and arithmatic to the detriment of art, history, health, science, and so forth.  It explains in part why there are so many Gen X- and Yers with plenty of formal education but little knowledge.  

There&#039;s one point where I&#039;m in total agreement with Thomas Sowell, and that&#039;s the curricula in public schools isn&#039;t rigorous enough.  Actually, it&#039;s antiquated; designed to produce a suitable Jack or Jill for tightening a bolt or a screw.  In my experience with inner city and suburban high schoolers, it seems many sense they&#039;re not really being taught anything of value, so they just check out.

I think the principal here is making a case for the corporations to invest themselves directly into public education.  It&#039;s now possible for many school districts to accommodate a charter school funded by, say, a Humana for training medical professionals, or a Verizon for training telecom professionals.   It&#039;d be a very practical and shrewd political and economic partnership, at the very least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always thought the ideal purpose of school &#8212; especially public school &#8211;was to give basic instruction in several disciplines, including civics.  I know in reality, schools mostly focus on so-called fundamentals of literacy and arithmatic to the detriment of art, history, health, science, and so forth.  It explains in part why there are so many Gen X- and Yers with plenty of formal education but little knowledge.  </p>
<p>There&#8217;s one point where I&#8217;m in total agreement with Thomas Sowell, and that&#8217;s the curricula in public schools isn&#8217;t rigorous enough.  Actually, it&#8217;s antiquated; designed to produce a suitable Jack or Jill for tightening a bolt or a screw.  In my experience with inner city and suburban high schoolers, it seems many sense they&#8217;re not really being taught anything of value, so they just check out.</p>
<p>I think the principal here is making a case for the corporations to invest themselves directly into public education.  It&#8217;s now possible for many school districts to accommodate a charter school funded by, say, a Humana for training medical professionals, or a Verizon for training telecom professionals.   It&#8217;d be a very practical and shrewd political and economic partnership, at the very least.</p>
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		<title>By: Lester Spence</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2008/06/07/detroit-school-superintendent-owns-up-to-systemic-failures/comment-page-1/#comment-19732</link>
		<dc:creator>Lester Spence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=462#comment-19732</guid>
		<description>What is the difference between someone who knows how to read and someone who reads critically? Having a skillset is important, and perhaps this is what Darkstar means when he talks about &quot;the basics&quot;. But after we get to WHAT they should know, the question becomes HOW DO WE TEACH what they should know. Both questions are political ones. And the answers lead to different types of graduates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is the difference between someone who knows how to read and someone who reads critically? Having a skillset is important, and perhaps this is what Darkstar means when he talks about &#8220;the basics&#8221;. But after we get to WHAT they should know, the question becomes HOW DO WE TEACH what they should know. Both questions are political ones. And the answers lead to different types of graduates.</p>
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		<title>By: albatross</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2008/06/07/detroit-school-superintendent-owns-up-to-systemic-failures/comment-page-1/#comment-19730</link>
		<dc:creator>albatross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:47:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=462#comment-19730</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure the skills needed are all that different.  How good a citizen can you be, if you can&#039;t read very well or handle practical math?  Are you going to keep up on current events, follow politics, and form competent opinions on that the politicians say, when your eyes glaze over trying to read a newspaper article?  For that matter, how can an able-bodied adult be called a good citizen, if he doesn&#039;t support himself and his family?  And how is he going to do that, if he hasn&#039;t got the skills for anything more than grunt work?  

I guess you could worry about good history and civics instruction in public schools.  But until you&#039;ve made sure your students are strong readers who can handle practical math, I&#039;m not sure how much they&#039;re going to benefit from that instruction.  Is someone who never reads a newspaper and doesn&#039;t understand how interest works going to make good decisions when voting?  How?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure the skills needed are all that different.  How good a citizen can you be, if you can&#8217;t read very well or handle practical math?  Are you going to keep up on current events, follow politics, and form competent opinions on that the politicians say, when your eyes glaze over trying to read a newspaper article?  For that matter, how can an able-bodied adult be called a good citizen, if he doesn&#8217;t support himself and his family?  And how is he going to do that, if he hasn&#8217;t got the skills for anything more than grunt work?  </p>
<p>I guess you could worry about good history and civics instruction in public schools.  But until you&#8217;ve made sure your students are strong readers who can handle practical math, I&#8217;m not sure how much they&#8217;re going to benefit from that instruction.  Is someone who never reads a newspaper and doesn&#8217;t understand how interest works going to make good decisions when voting?  How?</p>
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		<title>By: Lester Spence</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2008/06/07/detroit-school-superintendent-owns-up-to-systemic-failures/comment-page-1/#comment-19713</link>
		<dc:creator>Lester Spence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 03:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=462#comment-19713</guid>
		<description>what are the basics? the decision itself is a political one.  she doesn&#039;t say anything about the basics. she talks about EMPLOYERS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what are the basics? the decision itself is a political one.  she doesn&#8217;t say anything about the basics. she talks about EMPLOYERS.</p>
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		<title>By: DarkStar</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2008/06/07/detroit-school-superintendent-owns-up-to-systemic-failures/comment-page-1/#comment-19711</link>
		<dc:creator>DarkStar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 01:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=462#comment-19711</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve read that one before. There is also another &quot;version&quot; that expands this to say that, essentially, the education system was designed to, well, create sheep for easy handling by the government.

Here&#039;s where I&#039;m at with education: the public schools in the inner cities are do such poor jobs that they ought to just stick to the basics and let the parents handle what they should be handling. If they aren&#039;t doing the job, let other people handle that, not the schools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve read that one before. There is also another &#8220;version&#8221; that expands this to say that, essentially, the education system was designed to, well, create sheep for easy handling by the government.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s where I&#8217;m at with education: the public schools in the inner cities are do such poor jobs that they ought to just stick to the basics and let the parents handle what they should be handling. If they aren&#8217;t doing the job, let other people handle that, not the schools.</p>
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		<title>By: The Good Doctor</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2008/06/07/detroit-school-superintendent-owns-up-to-systemic-failures/comment-page-1/#comment-19694</link>
		<dc:creator>The Good Doctor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 21:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=462#comment-19694</guid>
		<description>Darkstar, what do you think about &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.servintfree.net/~aidmn-ejournal/publications/2001-11/PublicEducationInTheUnitedStates.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this piece&lt;/a&gt;, which is a nice summary of the issue. 
Malik, I think you&#039;re right. So the question is, why did she emphasize one rather than the other? And perhaps a related question is--if you&#039;ve got to sacrifice one over the other, which one do you sacrifice?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darkstar, what do you think about <a href="http://www.servintfree.net/~aidmn-ejournal/publications/2001-11/PublicEducationInTheUnitedStates.html" rel="nofollow">this piece</a>, which is a nice summary of the issue.<br />
Malik, I think you&#8217;re right. So the question is, why did she emphasize one rather than the other? And perhaps a related question is&#8211;if you&#8217;ve got to sacrifice one over the other, which one do you sacrifice?</p>
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		<title>By: Malik</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2008/06/07/detroit-school-superintendent-owns-up-to-systemic-failures/comment-page-1/#comment-19693</link>
		<dc:creator>Malik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 21:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=462#comment-19693</guid>
		<description>I think asking if one should come before the other creates a false dichotomy. If education is going to effective, both have to be part of an integral whole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think asking if one should come before the other creates a false dichotomy. If education is going to effective, both have to be part of an integral whole.</p>
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		<title>By: DarkStar</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2008/06/07/detroit-school-superintendent-owns-up-to-systemic-failures/comment-page-1/#comment-19692</link>
		<dc:creator>DarkStar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 20:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/?p=462#comment-19692</guid>
		<description>IMO, school is about education not citizenship. That should be left to the parents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMO, school is about education not citizenship. That should be left to the parents.</p>
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