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	<title>Comments on: Black male mental health</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/</link>
	<description>Intellectual discussions on pressing issues</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: DarkStar</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-13937</link>
		<dc:creator>DarkStar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-13937</guid>
		<description>A foreclosure home is about 10 doors down the street. The realtor has it listed for $15K more than the home was purchased for, according to the tax records. Another home just sold and was listed at $25K less than the home in foreclosure. It's an older home built by another builder. I hope it isn't the benchmark for homes in my development but it may be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A foreclosure home is about 10 doors down the street. The realtor has it listed for $15K more than the home was purchased for, according to the tax records. Another home just sold and was listed at $25K less than the home in foreclosure. It&#8217;s an older home built by another builder. I hope it isn&#8217;t the benchmark for homes in my development but it may be.</p>
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		<title>By: Lester Spence</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-13409</link>
		<dc:creator>Lester Spence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-13409</guid>
		<description>just came back from home. one foreclosure on the block...probably a few more but i didn't really look around. one of my boys came to visit, lives in a decent neighborhood has two sitting right next to him. a couple got a job in pennsylvania so they had to move from detroit. their house is in the fourth best neighborhood in the city and they basically had to dump it. no takers in 8 or 9 months.

like i said, this is permanent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just came back from home. one foreclosure on the block&#8230;probably a few more but i didn&#8217;t really look around. one of my boys came to visit, lives in a decent neighborhood has two sitting right next to him. a couple got a job in pennsylvania so they had to move from detroit. their house is in the fourth best neighborhood in the city and they basically had to dump it. no takers in 8 or 9 months.</p>
<p>like i said, this is permanent.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Fisher</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-13222</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Fisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 08:05:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-13222</guid>
		<description>Things are going to get a lot worse.  

Maybe it is just me, but I increasingly run into black men with degrees up their kazoos who can't find a way to make a living commensurate with their education or no living at all.  Though most of 'em are still trying to put up appearances.

I've started a policy of insisting on paying for lunch meetings even if the meetings have been requested by the black men I'm meeting with, because I find that increasingly they are embarrassed cause they at the very least need to split the check, even if the check is only $30.  And they. 

It ain't their fault.

It's by design.

Those of us over 50 have seen it before.  Lots of us are prepared for it mentally.  I have random conversations with brothers of that age range about this stuff everywhere.  Just had another one a few days ago while I got my car serviced.  We see it coming down the pipeline and most of us shake our graying heads at the fact that the young ones don't.

So it is going to be &lt;i&gt;much&lt;/i&gt; worse than ever because the young ones have not been trained to either recognize and/or handle an age-old situation and system.  Plenty of young "professional" black men just dream on that it is an individual matter and refuse to connect the dots of the system that puts them under this constraint.

Things are gonna come down on each individual black man like a ton of bricks.

And them brick ain't gonna just "fall" they are going to be &lt;i&gt;thrown&lt;/i&gt; with great deliberation and aim.  

Ya'll better keep your eyes open and get prepared for this shyt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Things are going to get a lot worse.  </p>
<p>Maybe it is just me, but I increasingly run into black men with degrees up their kazoos who can&#8217;t find a way to make a living commensurate with their education or no living at all.  Though most of &#8216;em are still trying to put up appearances.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve started a policy of insisting on paying for lunch meetings even if the meetings have been requested by the black men I&#8217;m meeting with, because I find that increasingly they are embarrassed cause they at the very least need to split the check, even if the check is only $30.  And they. </p>
<p>It ain&#8217;t their fault.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s by design.</p>
<p>Those of us over 50 have seen it before.  Lots of us are prepared for it mentally.  I have random conversations with brothers of that age range about this stuff everywhere.  Just had another one a few days ago while I got my car serviced.  We see it coming down the pipeline and most of us shake our graying heads at the fact that the young ones don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>So it is going to be <i>much</i> worse than ever because the young ones have not been trained to either recognize and/or handle an age-old situation and system.  Plenty of young &#8220;professional&#8221; black men just dream on that it is an individual matter and refuse to connect the dots of the system that puts them under this constraint.</p>
<p>Things are gonna come down on each individual black man like a ton of bricks.</p>
<p>And them brick ain&#8217;t gonna just &#8220;fall&#8221; they are going to be <i>thrown</i> with great deliberation and aim.  </p>
<p>Ya&#8217;ll better keep your eyes open and get prepared for this shyt.</p>
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		<title>By: Lester Spence</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-13034</link>
		<dc:creator>Lester Spence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Dec 2007 01:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-13034</guid>
		<description>i saw the mf and ec row... i'd be surprised if michael fisher (or anyone who subscribes to the cokely school) had read the speech. it'd really put to rest the notion that the boule was in practice anything more than an exclusive group of people who wanted to hang out with other exclusive people (usually to the exclusion of work). i'd be less surprised if ec had come across it...but surprised nonetheless. i know where the speech is...it's in the gates/west book called THE FUTURE OF THE RACE. i just don't have it in front of me right now.

and craig i think your central point is a powerful one, something that you've been pushing (correctly) for a while now. i was just suggesting that among the black professional class this isn't a new thing (brought on perhaps by integration).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i saw the mf and ec row&#8230; i&#8217;d be surprised if michael fisher (or anyone who subscribes to the cokely school) had read the speech. it&#8217;d really put to rest the notion that the boule was in practice anything more than an exclusive group of people who wanted to hang out with other exclusive people (usually to the exclusion of work). i&#8217;d be less surprised if ec had come across it&#8230;but surprised nonetheless. i know where the speech is&#8230;it&#8217;s in the gates/west book called THE FUTURE OF THE RACE. i just don&#8217;t have it in front of me right now.</p>
<p>and craig i think your central point is a powerful one, something that you&#8217;ve been pushing (correctly) for a while now. i was just suggesting that among the black professional class this isn&#8217;t a new thing (brought on perhaps by integration).</p>
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		<title>By: cnulan</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-12970</link>
		<dc:creator>cnulan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-12970</guid>
		<description>My overarching point Les, had less to do with what other folks &lt;b&gt;aren't&lt;/b&gt; doing, and more to do with the value of doing as the working subculture elects to do. In answer to your questions concerning how to sublimate pressures, frustrations, and disappointments, it's to put them aside and simply do for others. Mother Teresa or St. Lester them joints by the wayside. As difficult and counterintuitive as that may seem from a prescriptive perspective, my experience suggests to me that it brings benefits - as Baba Dixon might say - through &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;indirection.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My overarching point Les, had less to do with what other folks <b>aren&#8217;t</b> doing, and more to do with the value of doing as the working subculture elects to do. In answer to your questions concerning how to sublimate pressures, frustrations, and disappointments, it&#8217;s to put them aside and simply do for others. Mother Teresa or St. Lester them joints by the wayside. As difficult and counterintuitive as that may seem from a prescriptive perspective, my experience suggests to me that it brings benefits - as Baba Dixon might say - through <b><i>indirection.</i></b></p>
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		<title>By: cnulan</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-12969</link>
		<dc:creator>cnulan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:33:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-12969</guid>
		<description>MF and E.C. was scribing up on the Boule at the Assault - you might start there if you haven't peeped it in a minute.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MF and E.C. was scribing up on the Boule at the Assault - you might start there if you haven&#8217;t peeped it in a minute.</p>
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		<title>By: Lester Spence</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-12968</link>
		<dc:creator>Lester Spence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 18:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-12968</guid>
		<description>But I cannot "remember" a time when that wasn't the case. I'm going to see if I can dig out the speech W.E.B. Dubois gave to the Boule....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But I cannot &#8220;remember&#8221; a time when that wasn&#8217;t the case. I&#8217;m going to see if I can dig out the speech W.E.B. Dubois gave to the Boule&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: cnulan</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-12964</link>
		<dc:creator>cnulan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-12964</guid>
		<description>PTCruiser put his finger &lt;a href="http://www.prometheus6.org/node/19099#comment-26215" rel="nofollow"&gt;exactly on the breach...,&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;I think the decline actually began when the black elite and professional classes began acting in ways that clearly signaled to less affluent and educated blacks that everything we had come to value was fungible and reducible to transactions.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PTCruiser put his finger <a href="http://www.prometheus6.org/node/19099#comment-26215" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/www.prometheus6.org');" rel="nofollow">exactly on the breach&#8230;,</a></p>
<blockquote><p>I think the decline actually began when the black elite and professional classes began acting in ways that clearly signaled to less affluent and educated blacks that everything we had come to value was fungible and reducible to transactions.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Cobb</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-12923</link>
		<dc:creator>Cobb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 01:43:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-12923</guid>
		<description>Ahh. Now I see the other dimensions from which this item at P6 was coming. 

On Craig's party tip, I am absolutely right there. It's rather a kind of astonishing dynamic. I last experienced it at the Cass Tech reunion for my wife a couple years back, but it was in an interesting form. 

What I think - without getting too deep into it, is that a lot of blackfolks 'regress' into a safe kind of behavior which negates the reality of other blackfolks when they see a kind of phonyness. This creates an artificial gap that's a bit tough to bridge. I think the 'bourgie' vs 'country' dynamic is so thick in African America because of this. And I think that our common sense understanding of mental health comes from home training paradigms. I believe that there's real dissonance here - that 'bourgie' folks do not have a sense of awe or propriety about 'big mama' and that country folks have no reason to believe that 'uncle clarence' is for real. And so our approximation of those archtypes are met with extraordinary skepticism. 

Speaking for myself, I take characters like Richard Pryor's 'Mudbone' with a grain of salt. It never really occurred to me that anyone like Mudbone would or could be a respectable patriarch. So I would perceive dysfunction where others would get comfort. Similarly, the very concept of 'Da Mayor' from Spike Lee's "Do The Right Thing" or the three cornermen resonated only comically with me. Whereas several black men with 4 inch afros on a dais wearing beige three piece suits and wide ties would get my immediate recognition and respect. 

When I consider the bourgie party, I also recognize another dynamic through which I've passed. The stereotype is 'the oldest man in the club' and it's about brothers who are finally getting a game on that we played long ago. There's a grudging recognition that yeah, that was once me. But also what Craig says, man are you still dancing in suits? 

There's a kind of interesting extra critical dynamic at work here. Are we accurate in our criticism? Have we purged the guilt out of our observations as African Americans?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahh. Now I see the other dimensions from which this item at P6 was coming. </p>
<p>On Craig&#8217;s party tip, I am absolutely right there. It&#8217;s rather a kind of astonishing dynamic. I last experienced it at the Cass Tech reunion for my wife a couple years back, but it was in an interesting form. </p>
<p>What I think - without getting too deep into it, is that a lot of blackfolks &#8216;regress&#8217; into a safe kind of behavior which negates the reality of other blackfolks when they see a kind of phonyness. This creates an artificial gap that&#8217;s a bit tough to bridge. I think the &#8216;bourgie&#8217; vs &#8216;country&#8217; dynamic is so thick in African America because of this. And I think that our common sense understanding of mental health comes from home training paradigms. I believe that there&#8217;s real dissonance here - that &#8216;bourgie&#8217; folks do not have a sense of awe or propriety about &#8216;big mama&#8217; and that country folks have no reason to believe that &#8216;uncle clarence&#8217; is for real. And so our approximation of those archtypes are met with extraordinary skepticism. </p>
<p>Speaking for myself, I take characters like Richard Pryor&#8217;s &#8216;Mudbone&#8217; with a grain of salt. It never really occurred to me that anyone like Mudbone would or could be a respectable patriarch. So I would perceive dysfunction where others would get comfort. Similarly, the very concept of &#8216;Da Mayor&#8217; from Spike Lee&#8217;s &#8220;Do The Right Thing&#8221; or the three cornermen resonated only comically with me. Whereas several black men with 4 inch afros on a dais wearing beige three piece suits and wide ties would get my immediate recognition and respect. </p>
<p>When I consider the bourgie party, I also recognize another dynamic through which I&#8217;ve passed. The stereotype is &#8216;the oldest man in the club&#8217; and it&#8217;s about brothers who are finally getting a game on that we played long ago. There&#8217;s a grudging recognition that yeah, that was once me. But also what Craig says, man are you still dancing in suits? </p>
<p>There&#8217;s a kind of interesting extra critical dynamic at work here. Are we accurate in our criticism? Have we purged the guilt out of our observations as African Americans?</p>
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		<title>By: David McQueen</title>
		<link>http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-12852</link>
		<dc:creator>David McQueen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 22:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/12/21/black-male-mental-health/#comment-12852</guid>
		<description>I recently sent an email to many of my friends asking why we never just meet up to talk about these issues. I think with a generation of young black men with myths although somewhat different about their future, how can we mentor, lead or direct if we haven't sorted out our own shit.

So what am i gonna do about it. Gonna holla at a couple of bruthas and over a malt/beer/coolaid see where we can take it. 

Good to know that even over here in the cold UK I am not the only one concerned about our communal health on these issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently sent an email to many of my friends asking why we never just meet up to talk about these issues. I think with a generation of young black men with myths although somewhat different about their future, how can we mentor, lead or direct if we haven&#8217;t sorted out our own shit.</p>
<p>So what am i gonna do about it. Gonna holla at a couple of bruthas and over a malt/beer/coolaid see where we can take it. </p>
<p>Good to know that even over here in the cold UK I am not the only one concerned about our communal health on these issues.</p>
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